Dealing with bullies...

topic posted Wed, December 14, 2005 - 9:49 AM by  S. Archer
I'm always amazed at some people's zen-like compassion when dealing with bullies - tho, I mostly encounter this kind of deft compassion and self-assurance on the net, as opposed to in real life.

Although, I'm not sure if their example is an inspiration or a vexation; I think part of what upsets me in my encounters with bullies is that I have let it get to me and upset me, and lacked that kind of aplomb that others may have.

I can have compassion for bullies later, and sometimes they don't get to me, but when they do, it's just a big drag and it's hard to access that compassion, or whatever it is that will help me deal with the situation as it's unfolding.

I think part of the problem is that I don't want to make myself emotionally vulnerable to someone who's already pissing me off, so I don't stand up for myself as adamantly as I perhaps could.

But it's also confusing in that "is this a battle worth fighting?" kind of way; do I want to stop everything and hash it out over some little occurrance that has upset me at work, say? Or will that escalate the battle into a war - one that I'll have to work in every day.
posted by:
S. Archer
Portland
  • ash
    ash
    offline 7

    Re: Dealing with bullies...

    Wed, December 14, 2005 - 2:59 PM
    My first instinct is always just to walk away. When I was bullied (only a little) by teachers & pupils at school I guess I just accepted it and somehow thought I deserved it - let it add to my low self esteem.

    At work, another time, like school when I couldn't just walk away, I avoided the situation/person as long as I could then decided I deserved to be treated better - I thought about engaging in some namecalling etc but knew that would just escalate - so I did the whole Union/lawyer/mediation thing which did have positve results.

    I'm not sure what the 'solution' could be with family members/neighbours that bully though. Wise person once said to me that it wasn't always possible to avoid conflict in relationships with everyone. Dunno what it's like for other shy folk but I difuse my anger through exercise etc and very rarely express it - maybe it's a source of strength and a valid emotion if you are being treated unfairly. This same wise person told me once that anger was like petrol in that you could use it like an explosion and 'go postal' or as fuel to make a long journey & maybe look creatively at ways to change yer situation.

    [heard some stuff on the radio the other day about the huge power 'we' all have as bystanders to stand together and not let bullys get away with it]
    • Re: Dealing with bullies...

      Wed, December 14, 2005 - 9:46 PM
      I work at a moderately stressful place, with a lot of people, and the kind of situations that can arise are probably fairly typical. Minor power struggles and sniping and that sort of thing. Yesterday something occurred that tried my patience but I did manage, after a little while, to remember to ask myself "Do I want to keep feeling this way, and if not, what do I do to change it?"

      And so I tried to think of things along the lines of "life is too short to invest much time in being tweaked about things that are relatively trivial in the long run"

      I thought of William James's idea of free will being the ability to choose which thoughts I dwell upon.

      That seemed to help.

      When these type of situations arise, I'm often confused about if, and to what degree, my reaction is based on some sense of insecurity, or if there really is a bonafide issue at hand, objectively speaking. If I'm having a problem, I should probably be brave enough to bring things to a screeching halt while I do a little reality check, but I'm a bit loath to do that yet.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Dealing with bullies...

      Wed, December 14, 2005 - 9:48 PM
      Instinct has always pushed me into striking back verbally or walking away.Not always wise,especially in adult hood and you live with the guy,someone who took that as being ignored or how dare I question him?Luckily he never hit me,never allowed it to get to that point...threatened to call the police if he didn't leave and that scared him.Never ever let them see you cry is another,I used to totally detach myself as if nothing was happening...which worked in school sometimes.But the most effective lesson I ever learned was bidding my time till the tables turn and stand up for them...I done that with two and that was the last time they ever bothered me.I learned that from when I used to pick on some guy with my friends when I was about 8 or 9...it was that or be in his place..one day he stood up for me over something a teacher pulled...it scared me so badly I never bothered him again,felt horrible.Sometime putting the shoe on the other foot with compassion works wonders.Other times leaving is the only choice,it depends.
  • Re: Dealing with bullies...

    Thu, December 15, 2005 - 6:50 AM
    Bullies are difficult things. I dealt with them every day in school (got the chipped teeth and scarred lip to prove it), but I'm not sure I always dealt with in the best of ways. I tried to ignore it as much as possible, but sometimes I think that if I'd stood up for myself a bit more things might have been better. Then again, things might have been even worse. I dunno. We'll never know what might have been.

    I was also always much more willing to stand up for other people. My friends were always the other unpopular misfits (I was the unofficial leader of the "nerd herd"), and a lot of them got picked on even more than me. Lots of them were smaller and weaker, so I tried to stand up for them. I guess I preferred that the bullies beat me up instead since I knew I was one of the few of us (well, really just me and my friend Tim) who were tough enough to take it and even fight back.

    Of course, outside of a grade school setting there are still bulliles, but somehow engaging in fisticuffs is a little less socially acceptable now than it was then. The workplace bullies often use less physical tactics. I try to be assertive without being aggressive, but even so I'm still more likely to stick up for coworkers than I am to stick up for myself. (although sometimes the mental image of leaping over a coworker's desk and knocking him out of his chair is quite appealing)

    How should one deal with bullies? That's a tough question, and one I'm still working on finding answers to myself.
    • Re: Dealing with bullies...

      Thu, December 15, 2005 - 9:56 AM
      I should probably try to widen the scope a little bit.
      "Bully" is maybe not the exact term I wanted to use, especially now that I'm a full-fledged adult.

      Maybe something more general, like "difficult people" , as in "how to deal with difficult people." Or petit tyrants: people who absolutely must get their own way or else things are horrible. And who are very difficult to communicate with as far as suggesting other ways of doing things.
      • Re: Dealing with bullies...

        Thu, December 15, 2005 - 1:16 PM
        I'm kind of in a situation w/a difficult person at work. I let her comments (which contain implied blame) get to me a bit yesterday, but rethought it at home last night. Ideally, I guess, I would completely ignore the behavior that I find to be crossing boundaries (making me uncomfortable in some way) or directly question her about it, depending on my mood. The former makes her less important in my day overall, the latter gets her to either be direct or to not make those aside comments in front of me, and sets the stage for further ignoring, if necessary.

        And sometimes you really have to be vigilant with your behavior around/toward some people--it takes them a while to get it...but I think they do, eventually.
        • Re: Dealing with bullies...

          Thu, December 15, 2005 - 8:39 PM
          Lots of people have mentioned just walking away.
          I think that's fine, because it just isn't practical to take time to "process" everything with people all the time.

          But then how do you feel after walking away?
          I usually find walking away an unsatisfying solution, even if it is an expedient one.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Dealing with bullies...

    Thu, December 15, 2005 - 1:24 PM
    <--- likes the old TV show Kung Fu
    • Re: Dealing with bullies...

      Thu, December 15, 2005 - 7:48 PM
      I agree with some..yes walking away is best..because if you fight back in a school you will get suspended..in a work place maybe fired. Still you still shouldnt put up with crap. I was bullied throught HS, normally these bullies would just drop out and I wont ever see them again. Then it was this one guy..total dumbass..played with fire<refering to myself> then one day i was at the brink...luckily the teacher sent him out..though if he hadnt... OH I would of had stains on my white school shirt can could never come out.

      <btw this is way off topic..but I cant seem to get my pic centered..i croped the image..it says "save" i clicked it and it still comes out uneven.>
      • ash
        ash
        offline 7

        Re: Dealing with bullies...

        Thu, December 15, 2005 - 11:15 PM
        "But then how do you feel after walking away?"
        It depends - a bit more like I've lost out if I wanted to be in that environment - I think there's ways to change how I behave and still let myself enjoy the company of the others there.

        It works for me to think about the benefits of where I head off to if I walk away - like, 'great, I can go for a stroll to the cake shop' or whatever than dwell on what I've walked away from. Sometimes I guess I do feel like I've lost & part of me doesn't want the mean person to feel like they've got what they want by being mean - which is why I think I'm shifting to being more assertive and not seeking to always avoid conflict.

        And obviously, like that Willian James idea, I can choose to change how I think about the mean person or the environment I share with them.

        <phantom - photo looks dead arty & cool! - leave it like it is!>
        • Re: Dealing with bullies...

          Fri, December 16, 2005 - 11:26 AM
          "And obviously, like that Willian James idea, I can choose to change how I think about the mean person or the environment I share with them. "

          ------------->

          I was thinking other day that there are three things to consider; 1-how I regard the other person; 2-how I regard my own reaction to the other person; and 3- how I regard the environment I'm in.

          Regarding the first one; I realize the "bully" often hasn't got it easy. I would never trade places with them. But, as the situation is unfolding, in my mind that doesn't excuse their sometimes outrageous behavior, though maybe long afterwards, after the emotions have drained away, I will say "poor little tyrant" (or something like that - hopefully less condescending-sounding!)

          It is a complicated thing. I wonder; if I walk away and let the bully get their way too many times, will there be some sort of lingering resentment in me? Will I just forget all about it in time?

          I think I resent that in even some of the most innocuous situations, competition has to be created, and some sort of hierarchy set in place, and then a conflict set up, a scapegoat chosen, blame assigned, etc., etc, etc.
          • Re: Dealing with bullies...

            Fri, December 16, 2005 - 11:52 AM
            I think how you deal with the situation will depend on how strongly you are feeling about it.

            If you do feel like this person has some kind of power over you, then maybe try to figure out ways to lessen or stop it. I'd mentioned ignoring someone because that's what worked for me...up to a point.

            Just as background--two days in a row, this person has come into my cubicle/workspace and started ranting about our numbers (what we're 'graded' on ;) and I gave my viewpoint--that it doesn't matter to me who does better than whom, it's what the department does that ultimately matters. I reiterated several times that I wasn't interested in the view she was presenting. I think eventually she'll catch on that we're a team and not working against one another. If not, at least I can still make *my* point and not buy into hers.

            Anyway, my point being that sometimes instead of walking away you do need to state your position or take your side of things up with the person. Without knowing the details it's hard to give a specific example, but just try to think of ways you can counterract their behavior, while still feeling good and justified about your own.
      • Re: Dealing with bullies...

        Fri, December 16, 2005 - 7:15 AM
        I dunno... I kind of like the picture off-center. It's more artistic that way. Plus we can all pretend you were doing the "Time Warp." ("It's a step to the left...")
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Dealing with bullies...

          Fri, December 16, 2005 - 7:46 AM
          I think Waylon's right Phantom,let the picture be,looks fine the way it is,eye catching and like Waylon said artistic.
  • Re: Dealing with bullies...

    Fri, December 16, 2005 - 12:01 PM
    If a bully cannot push someone around, they will be forced to grow out of the insecurity and fear that they seek to unload on others.

    Knowing that their weakness is to feed on others' insecurities, we can help them and ourselves by not allowing them to do so while also being respectful; not passive or aggressive, but treating them as our equal.

    I have to speak to about two hundred people in a couple weeks and I am sooooooo nervous when I think about it!! I have done it once before. I am still the shy boy in the corner at times too who pissed his pants at school more than any other boy I can think of, but now I have a good understanding on the sensation of fear; it's simply the feeling we get when we make contact with our boundaries of comfort, be they physical, emotional or even mental.
    • Re: Dealing with bullies...

      Fri, December 16, 2005 - 12:24 PM
      I've learned to choose my battles very carefully----and if standing up to someone will actually do good in a way the situtation will change then I'd say go for it, if not, then maybe the best thing to do is to not be offended by what ever it is they say or do! I read that once--- today let nothing offend you, and for a day I worked at it and honestly it helped. As they say it's mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter.....
      • Re: Dealing with bullies...

        Fri, December 16, 2005 - 12:46 PM
        So long as we don't sweep it under the rug, choosing not to accept their scat is a great idea. I like to remind mtself when anyone is yelling at me that this is their feelings, not mine; then their intention is what I am usually touched by because they may be in pain and lost, and maybe even due to something I did.

        Do not surpress you feelings though; it'll burn a hole in your gut!

        Every moment is a battle, but a dance too. I suspect the greatest warriors flow with the rhythm and exist in the 'now'.

        I find letting a joke burst out eases tension. The more the tension, the bigger the laughter.
        • ash
          ash
          offline 7

          Re: Dealing with bullies...

          Fri, December 16, 2005 - 3:40 PM
          filigree - mate of mine at last workplace fave saying was "stats are for prats" and also she would look not very impressed and point at her face and say "is this the face of concern? I don't think so..." - was always done with a sense of humour too. True though innit - not like you're working in a sausage factory - more than just rattling through 'numbers' involved & its all skewiff if the person who does fewer (which there must be on any team) is endlessly harassed! Doubt much praise is given for folk that go beyond the call of duty and do a great job /boost client satisfaction etc.

          one of my fave bands, fat freddy's drop have a lyric about willow trees - think they crop up in tai-chi / zen approaches too - the willow tree can keep its roots firmly planted and yield to wind / weight of snow etc and that is a sign of its strength - more so than a rigid tree that just falls over because it resists so much. That wasn't the lyric obviously!

          a laid back - water off a ducks back - wind through a willow trees branches approach to mean poeple might be helpful? Not sure they deserve much over analysing.

          "Every moment is a battle, but a dance too" - I like that...
          • Re: Dealing with bullies...

            Fri, December 16, 2005 - 5:42 PM
            >she would look not very impressed and point at her face >and say "is this the face of concern? I don't think so..."

            Hehe...I like that. :) I could see me doing something like that.

            The thing about this chick at work--she does better than the rest of us combined, usually. And she constantly worries about any of us doing even half as well. I'm thinking she's got some serious anxiety problems, to be honest. But I don't want them overflowing on me, so I do my best to not get emotionally involved. ;)

            I really like your sharing the example of the willow tree. It is one tack to take. Although, I was thinking that if someone is *seriously* stressed out by others at work, they'd be better off going over that person's head and getting an understanding supervisor involved. We spend so much of our lives at work that we have a right to spend it relatively stress-free (or at least not caused by others overstepping their bounds). Just a thought.
            • ash
              ash
              offline 7

              Re: Dealing with bullies...

              Fri, December 16, 2005 - 6:47 PM
              strewth! I thought this was some sort of 'manager' that was hassling you! don't stand for a bar of a coworker telling you to be as insecure as obsessive as she is! Playful warm strategies...'ah, hey, really good to see you (so & so) while you're here can you tell me which of these shoes (whatever) you like the best?' or 'I don't suppose you know a good pickle recipe do you?' or 'Do you know a good car mechanic?' anything that lets her walk out thinking shes been helpful rather than a pain - she might just be keen on spending time with you and doesn't really know what to say.

              "We spend so much of our lives at work that we have a right to spend it relatively stress-free "
              tru dat! I think sometimes finding someone else (perhaps 'higher' up) is a better approach than tackling the person directly.
              • Re: Dealing with bullies...

                Tue, December 20, 2005 - 9:27 PM
                She may have actually quit today. She was stomping around the office over something (perhaps that my number happened to be higher than hers? or that the rest of the department gets along well? who knows) and I heard she packed up her belongings in a box after I left. Hope they didn't talk her into staying--she really makes life difficult for a friend of mine there, very passive-agressive behavior-like with her all the time. At any rate, we'll probably be having a meeting in the a.m. either way. Keep your fingers crossed for the best news. ;)
          • Re: Dealing with bullies...

            Sat, December 17, 2005 - 12:22 PM
            "Not sure they deserve much over analysing. "
            ----------->
            It's true that analysis can be fruitless.

            I tend toward the over-analyzing, partly because it can be fun- like putting together a puzzle in different kinds of crazy ways to see what works, and then also because the world often is baffling in its little details. You can follow the thread of meaning that runs throughout these incidents all the way back to someone's philosophy of life, or basic personal worldview or what-have-you, and often discover things about yourself you weren't aware of in the process.

            I will geek out on the pop-analysis, though.

            But then - who better to analyze than our enemies (if you'll pardon the somewhat histrionic and martial term)? Isn't there some tradition that prays for a worthy opponent and gives prayers of blessing upon their enemies?
            Enemies will sometimes give it to you straighter than friends will.
            That's obvious. But then they can also be regarded as presenting an additional learning opportunity for trying to figure out why they bother you so. Which I think has to do as much with my worldview (my beliefs of 'how the world is' vs 'how it should be'), or my view of myself (how I am vs how I should be, or "how I should be treated" vs "how I am treated" !), than it does with them.
    • Re: Dealing with bullies...

      Sat, December 17, 2005 - 12:45 PM
      "If a bully cannot push someone around, they will be forced to grow out of the insecurity and fear that they seek to unload on others."
      ------------->

      That is a formulation of the ideal response to the bully, and I ask myself, "why can't I do that?"
      Therapy is in order, perhaps.

      How does one arrive at that point of cool equanimity, that imperturbable point?

      I will admit that I do wonder if the ideal expressed in that statement is unrealistic.

      I remember when I got a job working at a homeless shelter for adults with chronic mental illnesses - the director told me the first day, "No matter who you are, there is always going to be someone that you're afraid of here." And there was; for some people it was the big guys, for some it was the little old lady who would go into screaming fits at you and begin slapping herself. The point is, to be human, or at least, to be open to human interaction, is to be vulnerable, I think, and that means being open to pain and open to fear as well as joy and love.

      Sorry if the above sounds a little preachy, but you can sorta see what I'm trying to explore there...By the way, I like your perspective on fear in that last paragraph, Howler.

      I remember hearing about a guy who, right before giving a big speech, would go into the bathroom and wet a couple of towels, wring them mostly dry, and then throw them on the floor as hard as he could. He said that helped him move his energy in a direction, rather than it being sort of scattered and diffused "nervous" energy...
  • Re: Dealing with bullies...

    Sat, December 17, 2005 - 5:12 PM
    “Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart.” ...CONFUCIUS

    “What the superior man seeks is in himself; what the small man seeks is in others.” ...CONFUCIUS

    “It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop.” ...CONFUCIUS

    “I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.” ...CONFUCIUS

    “You will find rest from vain fancies if you perform every act in life as though it were your last.” ...MARCUS AURELIUS ANTONINUS

    “Look well into thyself; there is a source of strength which will always spring up if thou wilt always look there.” ...MARCUS AURELIUS ANTONINUS

    “Nothing happens to anybody which he is not fitted by nature to bear.” ...MARCUS AURELIUS ANTONINUS

    “If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment.” ...MARCUS AURELIUS ANTONINUS
    • ash
      ash
      offline 7

      Re: Dealing with bullies...

      Sat, December 17, 2005 - 6:11 PM
      I don't really have a response - just wanted to say 'thanks' all for posting : )

      [not particularly relevant but read something recently that caught my attention - about how ANY attention we give to a specific behaviour can encourage it - not so important whether that's positive/negative/whatever]
  • My
    My
    offline 0

    Re: Dealing with bullies...

    Tue, August 7, 2007 - 3:41 PM
    I've never been physically abused by bullies maybe just a shove or w/e. Mostly just being name called/picked on for being shy. I usually just ignore it and walk away, or just play along laughing, or just acting nice/smiling at them... I try to never show that their words hurt me.. Some eventually get bored of my no reaction and stop or want to bother me anymore cause I'm nice to them I guess.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Dealing with bullies...

      Wed, August 8, 2007 - 5:23 PM
      The hardest thing is for me is to 'put on that mask of indifference' and let it roll off my back,my usual reaction is anger and lashing out which has backfired and makes me feel like I lost.I don't like anyone,male or female to weld that kind of power over me to intimidate.Every bully I've ever known thrived on getting a reaction,any reaction.When they cease getting it,it deflates them.It doesn't happen anymore in my life,but has in various forms through certain people that I've cut ties with.Nothing beats high school,that was the worst,that left alot of scars emotionally that as an adult I feel should be over,yet still sting deeply.
      • Re: Dealing with bullies...

        Fri, August 17, 2007 - 12:02 AM
        I dont think of it as zen, I think of it as being spineless sometimes.
        I was on a tribe, where there was a bully guy who laid into me....(he was victim of being a woops kind of guy, he read only my reply to a post and assumed I started the post and then laid into me)...the ass..anyway, the moderator, booted me off the tribe when another person stood up and said..."hey, appologize" to the moron. But the leader of the tribe obviously felt pressured or scared of the guy and so booted me off of the private tribe.
        Needless to say, she showed her true colors to bullys...she ducked and ran and got rid of me...
        well, I guess they deserve each other.
        So sometimes it isnt Zen, sometimes its a school yard and the "meow meow" pussy goes to the bully and comforts them...
        needless to say...Im not shy...but this thread attracted me..
        you dont mean to tell me you guys are shy? You guys dont act shy reading your posts!
        (thats a complement by the way)

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